http://kotaku.com/the-japanese-internet-reacts-to-scarlet-johansson-in-gh-1771544034
So a GitS movie which is being white washed, anyone have issues with this?
So a GitS movie which is being white washed, anyone have issues with this?
Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell
- Thread starter Demon_Skeith
- Start date
Yes and No.
On one hand studios should be allowed to cast whomever they want. I mean they're the ones paying for this to be made so they have ultimate creative control. If someone doesn't like it then they don't have to support the creator. (Remember, voting with your wallet is an effective way to make them listen.)
That said, I don't like the idea of a Motoko Kusanagi as non-Japanese. The whole story is set in Japan around a Japanese special forces division called Section 9. So to have her as non-Japanese seems strange.
But despite all that I'm just kind of sick of the whole whitewashing argument in general.
On one hand studios should be allowed to cast whomever they want. I mean they're the ones paying for this to be made so they have ultimate creative control. If someone doesn't like it then they don't have to support the creator. (Remember, voting with your wallet is an effective way to make them listen.)
That said, I don't like the idea of a Motoko Kusanagi as non-Japanese. The whole story is set in Japan around a Japanese special forces division called Section 9. So to have her as non-Japanese seems strange.
But despite all that I'm just kind of sick of the whole whitewashing argument in general.
she is white looking in most of the animes though?
I am kinda liking this, hope this turns out to be a good movie. GITS gets world wide
got get past the white wash rage first.
I have an issue with the concept of White washing, but in this case not so much as it is a fictional series..
I think in this case she was cast mainly because she is pretty good in action, Marvel films and so, this isn't a far leap from that.
What is important, is intent, and I don't think that the producers are intending to be offensive here, like they usually are in other cases of white washing characters..
(See: blackface and minstrel performances and other red or yellowface characters such as Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast at Tiffany's..)
The main difference here is that while back then they didn't know any better, by now, we should. This is what happens when you have one groups who is so accustomed to their false sense of superiority that they see others who aren't of the same skin color as lampoonish and worthy of ridicule. The very fact that a Trayvon Martin, (as well as the existence of the "Trayvonning" meme) Ray/Janay Rice (football player who beats his wife) costume existed, and was considered jokes and were typically worn by, and featured by White people is evident of this mindset.
When James Holmes and Adam Lanza shot up a theatre and school full of people, there were no such costumes, and neither of any of the other people who have since been in mass shootings since then (I'm not saying they should exist, I'm just illustrating a point.) And don't even get me started on the number of terrorist themed costumes there are out there.. I'd say something, but it is low hanging fruit at this point..
You may be tired of "hearing" about it, and the inconvenience and discomfort it may bring you as a White person, but we are tired of "seeing," "feeling," and "hearing" the wanton disregard for us as people. When that changes, is when the controversy surrounding it will change.
That being said, this isn't exactly the same as black-faced, curly-permed, Angelina Jolie playing biracial Marianne Pearl, blue-eyed, porcelain-skinned, Liz Taylor playing Cleopatra, and other roles that were historically for brown or black skinned people, whitewashed to make White people feel comfortable, (as they tend to clutch their pearls and freak out if a cast isn't at least 99.9% White, just look at the Great White Freakout over the character Rue in the Hunger Games, British born, Idris Elba as a Black James Bond, the Black Hermione in the Harry Potter play, or more recently, the freakout over a Black Stormtrooper in the latest Star Wars movie..) this is more or less like blonde-haired Emma Stone playing a half-Korean woman, or the Wayans Bros. In Whiteface for the movie, White Chicks, Dave Chapelle in Whiteface for the skits on his show, or Robert Downey Jr, in Blackface for Tropic Thunder.
Don't get me wrong, whitewashing is a serious issue, but not as much in this case since it is fiction. But people should be more aware about the impact stuff like this will have on people as the world becomes browner and more diverse, due to people having families with different ethnicities. It is things like this that cause the predatory beauty industry to succeed where skin bleaching and cosmetic surgery is concerned. Black and Brown people, from African, South American, Caribbean, Indian subcontinent as well as Asian countries, are bleaching their skin because they have been brainwashed into thinking that fair skin = beautiful. Asian women under go cosmetic surgery to round out their eyes to look more western and avoid the sun because they believe the same thing.
And it isn't just regular people like us whom are susceptible, but famous people as well. (See Sammy Sosa.) People in the countries where you typically find Black and Brown skinned people are passed up for roles in lieu of fair skinned people who go to dangerous lengths to pass for White. The majority of cover models in African magazines, and lead roles in media feature White people even though they are no where near the majority.
And it is stuff like this, as well as the long-reaching effects of colonialism and imperialism that lead to this mindset, especially when Brown or Black models and actresses are often told how much more beautiful they'd be if they were White(r). (See: Takara Allen's reaction to said suggestion from a Tinder date.)
As a case in point, people like me and my husband, who are ethnic clusterfucks, (we're not even made of the same stuff and the only ethnicities we have in common are Black, Spanish and Cherokee (Native American) aside from that, he is Italian, Puertorican and Dutch (as well as Cherokee) on his dad's side, and is Black with Egyptian ancestry on his mom's side. I just found out that I am also Welsh on my dad's side, and English, Scottish and Scandinavian on my mom's.. as for my Afro heritage, my ancestry is from Senegal and the Ivory Coast.. inclusive of the Irish on both sides, Blackfoot and Apache on my dad's side and U.S. Virgin Islander (St. Thomas) and Trinidadian on my mom's side.. which, I already knew about..) don't exist in the media, and if they do, they are portrayed as Black (light-skinned, beauty queen stereotype) or Latina because of skin color. I have actually had White people tell me that I am very pretty for a Black girl, or that they have "never seen my shade of Black before," and that I am "very lucky to be of mixed race, and will have beautiful children with my husband." And it is the constant lack of diversity and white-washing in the media, that only reinforces this mindset.
It is funny how these people get so uncomfortable around us when they can't really figure out which box they should put us in, or how to treat us, based on that, and try to get us into doing it for them by trying to force us into identifying as either one ethnicity or the other, instead of all. My husband and I have decided that we will tell our kids to check the "Other" box and either say "Human," "The Future," or "Everything but Asian." on the line next to it asking for an explanation.
People who believe that this is done because they think it is White people who usually spends the money to see these movies, lack of good ethnic actors to play these roles. or that a movie with a minority lead won't sell well, need only look at the fact that the Asian film industry, inclusive of Bollywood and Kollywood are many times larger than that of Hollywood, and spend more money than Hollywood, and the success of the newest Star Wars movie to see that those arguments are bunk.
And on the off-chance some one thinks I am being racist against White people, (or worse, an SJW) I am not, I am just pointing out an inconvenient and oft-ignored fact that should be discussed more often instead of people just jumping to conclusions, making ignorant statements and then burying their heads in the sand and hoping that it will go away. That is not the way you solve problems and it is that kind of thinking that lead to the rise of Donald Trump.
The people who buried their heads and denied the racist rhetoric before, during and after Obama's presidency as evidence of the fact that racism is still alive and well in this country, are seeing first hand what everyone else already knew, and were trying to get them to see all along, and worse still is the fact that the White Supremacists who always felt this way, have taken these people's silence as a silent agreement with their cause, and now Trump has a very real chance to be the face of our country.
Anyway sorry for the soliloquy.
I think in this case she was cast mainly because she is pretty good in action, Marvel films and so, this isn't a far leap from that.
What is important, is intent, and I don't think that the producers are intending to be offensive here, like they usually are in other cases of white washing characters..
(See: blackface and minstrel performances and other red or yellowface characters such as Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast at Tiffany's..)
The main difference here is that while back then they didn't know any better, by now, we should. This is what happens when you have one groups who is so accustomed to their false sense of superiority that they see others who aren't of the same skin color as lampoonish and worthy of ridicule. The very fact that a Trayvon Martin, (as well as the existence of the "Trayvonning" meme) Ray/Janay Rice (football player who beats his wife) costume existed, and was considered jokes and were typically worn by, and featured by White people is evident of this mindset.
When James Holmes and Adam Lanza shot up a theatre and school full of people, there were no such costumes, and neither of any of the other people who have since been in mass shootings since then (I'm not saying they should exist, I'm just illustrating a point.) And don't even get me started on the number of terrorist themed costumes there are out there.. I'd say something, but it is low hanging fruit at this point..
You may be tired of "hearing" about it, and the inconvenience and discomfort it may bring you as a White person, but we are tired of "seeing," "feeling," and "hearing" the wanton disregard for us as people. When that changes, is when the controversy surrounding it will change.
That being said, this isn't exactly the same as black-faced, curly-permed, Angelina Jolie playing biracial Marianne Pearl, blue-eyed, porcelain-skinned, Liz Taylor playing Cleopatra, and other roles that were historically for brown or black skinned people, whitewashed to make White people feel comfortable, (as they tend to clutch their pearls and freak out if a cast isn't at least 99.9% White, just look at the Great White Freakout over the character Rue in the Hunger Games, British born, Idris Elba as a Black James Bond, the Black Hermione in the Harry Potter play, or more recently, the freakout over a Black Stormtrooper in the latest Star Wars movie..) this is more or less like blonde-haired Emma Stone playing a half-Korean woman, or the Wayans Bros. In Whiteface for the movie, White Chicks, Dave Chapelle in Whiteface for the skits on his show, or Robert Downey Jr, in Blackface for Tropic Thunder.
Don't get me wrong, whitewashing is a serious issue, but not as much in this case since it is fiction. But people should be more aware about the impact stuff like this will have on people as the world becomes browner and more diverse, due to people having families with different ethnicities. It is things like this that cause the predatory beauty industry to succeed where skin bleaching and cosmetic surgery is concerned. Black and Brown people, from African, South American, Caribbean, Indian subcontinent as well as Asian countries, are bleaching their skin because they have been brainwashed into thinking that fair skin = beautiful. Asian women under go cosmetic surgery to round out their eyes to look more western and avoid the sun because they believe the same thing.
And it isn't just regular people like us whom are susceptible, but famous people as well. (See Sammy Sosa.) People in the countries where you typically find Black and Brown skinned people are passed up for roles in lieu of fair skinned people who go to dangerous lengths to pass for White. The majority of cover models in African magazines, and lead roles in media feature White people even though they are no where near the majority.
And it is stuff like this, as well as the long-reaching effects of colonialism and imperialism that lead to this mindset, especially when Brown or Black models and actresses are often told how much more beautiful they'd be if they were White(r). (See: Takara Allen's reaction to said suggestion from a Tinder date.)
As a case in point, people like me and my husband, who are ethnic clusterfucks, (we're not even made of the same stuff and the only ethnicities we have in common are Black, Spanish and Cherokee (Native American) aside from that, he is Italian, Puertorican and Dutch (as well as Cherokee) on his dad's side, and is Black with Egyptian ancestry on his mom's side. I just found out that I am also Welsh on my dad's side, and English, Scottish and Scandinavian on my mom's.. as for my Afro heritage, my ancestry is from Senegal and the Ivory Coast.. inclusive of the Irish on both sides, Blackfoot and Apache on my dad's side and U.S. Virgin Islander (St. Thomas) and Trinidadian on my mom's side.. which, I already knew about..) don't exist in the media, and if they do, they are portrayed as Black (light-skinned, beauty queen stereotype) or Latina because of skin color. I have actually had White people tell me that I am very pretty for a Black girl, or that they have "never seen my shade of Black before," and that I am "very lucky to be of mixed race, and will have beautiful children with my husband." And it is the constant lack of diversity and white-washing in the media, that only reinforces this mindset.
It is funny how these people get so uncomfortable around us when they can't really figure out which box they should put us in, or how to treat us, based on that, and try to get us into doing it for them by trying to force us into identifying as either one ethnicity or the other, instead of all. My husband and I have decided that we will tell our kids to check the "Other" box and either say "Human," "The Future," or "Everything but Asian." on the line next to it asking for an explanation.
People who believe that this is done because they think it is White people who usually spends the money to see these movies, lack of good ethnic actors to play these roles. or that a movie with a minority lead won't sell well, need only look at the fact that the Asian film industry, inclusive of Bollywood and Kollywood are many times larger than that of Hollywood, and spend more money than Hollywood, and the success of the newest Star Wars movie to see that those arguments are bunk.
And on the off-chance some one thinks I am being racist against White people, (or worse, an SJW) I am not, I am just pointing out an inconvenient and oft-ignored fact that should be discussed more often instead of people just jumping to conclusions, making ignorant statements and then burying their heads in the sand and hoping that it will go away. That is not the way you solve problems and it is that kind of thinking that lead to the rise of Donald Trump.
The people who buried their heads and denied the racist rhetoric before, during and after Obama's presidency as evidence of the fact that racism is still alive and well in this country, are seeing first hand what everyone else already knew, and were trying to get them to see all along, and worse still is the fact that the White Supremacists who always felt this way, have taken these people's silence as a silent agreement with their cause, and now Trump has a very real chance to be the face of our country.
Anyway sorry for the soliloquy.
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Black Angel nice post. Well the Major in the anime series is white with Asian features, so yeah I don't think its a huge issue really.
Thanks DS, and yeah on the subject of fiction, this move is palpable, but at the same time it isn't as if there is a shortage of Asian actors to fit the part.. I believe quite a few notable actresses have already said their piece on this.
I was watching Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. not too long ago and I actually started wondering why neither of the Asian leads in the series were considered for this part..
Ming Na Wen (Agent Melinda May) was actually one of the actresses who spoke out about this, but if age was a factor, they could've gone with Chloe Bennett who plays Skye/Daisy on the series. From what you've said, Bennett would've been the perfect fit since she is biracial. She's half Chinese, half White.
She changed her name to Bennett because she wasn't getting any calls back for parts as Chloe Wang, which is her father's name, so when she took her mother's name instead, that was when the calls started coming in. And on a related note from my first post, Ming Na Wen actually had the double eyelid surgery many Asian women have, to look more western.
That said, I believe the producers could have made it work with Bennett, seeing as how Cobie Smulders, the actress who plays Agent Maria Hill, is in both the movies and on the show itself, and with an Inhumans movie on the horizon, it wouldn't been like Bennett would've been out of her league or the first one to juggle both a movie and a tv series.
I was watching Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. not too long ago and I actually started wondering why neither of the Asian leads in the series were considered for this part..
Ming Na Wen (Agent Melinda May) was actually one of the actresses who spoke out about this, but if age was a factor, they could've gone with Chloe Bennett who plays Skye/Daisy on the series. From what you've said, Bennett would've been the perfect fit since she is biracial. She's half Chinese, half White.
She changed her name to Bennett because she wasn't getting any calls back for parts as Chloe Wang, which is her father's name, so when she took her mother's name instead, that was when the calls started coming in. And on a related note from my first post, Ming Na Wen actually had the double eyelid surgery many Asian women have, to look more western.
That said, I believe the producers could have made it work with Bennett, seeing as how Cobie Smulders, the actress who plays Agent Maria Hill, is in both the movies and on the show itself, and with an Inhumans movie on the horizon, it wouldn't been like Bennett would've been out of her league or the first one to juggle both a movie and a tv series.
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