New Super Mario Bros. 2 Announced

Beirut, how are the 2D platformers any more the same than 3D platformers?

The 2D platformers have "different worlds", just like the 3D ones.

Also, as I said, take every FPS game. Every RPG game. Every game of every genre. Each game in it's genre, is exactly the same, just with different areas, characters, and items, and music.... etc.
 
Beirut said:
Sigh, but guys.. aren't you tired of the side-scrollers? They're exactly the same! I'm not trying to offend, I'm not even angry at anyone, I'm just trying to prove a point! The 2D Mario games are fun, YES, they are very fun, but really, you just need a copy of; SMW, SMB3 or NSMBW to get the full experience. What more can they change?? At least, with the 3D series it's different every time. Now sure, one could counter this and say "well, actually, you're still just collecting stars.", well it's different, it's different maps, worlds, characters, etc. "Well that excuse really sucked in your defense." Yes, bu-
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I agree in a sense, because as much as I like sidescrollers, at the moment, the 3DS is really well served with sidescrolling platformers. There's so many of them. Ravin Rabbids, Sonic Generations, Mutant Mudds, Mighty Switch Force, Rayman Origins, Epic Mickey 2, as well as many of the Virtual Console titles, 3D classics, and the ambassador titles.

Not so many 3D platformers. Not enough, IMO.

But I think it's a mistake to focus blame on NSMB2 for this. When they announced there'd be a new 2d super mario game for 3DS, it really seemed out of the blue. No one was really expecting that, especially not less than a year after SM3DLand, Paper Mario, and all the other 3ds Mario spin offs. While it's not something I felt there was any great need for, I'm treating it like an unexpected bonus, rather than some massive letdown. Besides, the previous game in the series is already 6 years ago, so even if it does end up being a bit of a rehash, it's not like they didn't wait.
 
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Audacity said:
Beirut said:
Sigh, but guys.. aren't you tired of the side-scrollers? They're exactly the same! I'm not trying to offend, I'm not even angry at anyone, I'm just trying to prove a point! The 2D Mario games are fun, YES, they are very fun, but really, you just need a copy of; SMW, SMB3 or NSMBW to get the full experience. What more can they change?? At least, with the 3D series it's different every time. Now sure, one could counter this and say "well, actually, you're still just collecting stars.", well it's different, it's different maps, worlds, characters, etc. "Well that excuse really sucked in your defense." Yes, bu-
Click to expand...

I agree in a sense, because as much as I like sidescrollers, at the moment, the 3DS is really well served with sidescrolling platformers. There's so many of them. Ravin Rabbids, Sonic Generations, Mutant Mudds, Mighty Switch Force, Rayman Origins, Epic Mickey 2, as well as many of the Virtual Console titles, 3D classics, and the ambassador titles.

Not so many 3D platformers. Not enough, IMO.

But I think it's a mistake to focus blame on NSMB2 for this. When they announced there'd be a new 2d super mario game for 3DS, it really seemed out of the blue. No one was really expecting that, especially not less than a year after SM3DLand, Paper Mario, and all the other 3ds Mario spin offs. While it's not something I felt there was any great need for, I'm treating it like an unexpected bonus, rather than some massive letdown. Besides, the previous game in the series is already 6 years ago, so even if it does end up being a bit of a rehash, it's not like they didn't wait.
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Except at least two of those sidescrollers aren't out yet (like Epic Mickey and I think Rayman) and many of the others are quite mediocre compared to actual Mario games. The Game Boy Advance had a TON of 2D platformers and even Mario remakes... but does that really make up for the lack of any new Mario platformers? Quality is more than just what genre something falls in.

Besides, Nintendo kept the 3D platformer alive... Mario 3D Land came out just months ago. Why did 3D platformers die out in general? Rare. They stopped making them, the genre basically died a quick death.
 
Nin3DS said:
Except at least two of those sidescrollers aren't out yet (like Epic Mickey and I think Rayman) and many of the others are quite mediocre compared to actual Mario games. The Game Boy Advance had a TON of 2D platformers and even Mario remakes... but does that really make up for the lack of any new Mario platformers? Quality is more than just what genre something falls in.

Besides, Nintendo kept the 3D platformer alive... Mario 3D Land came out just months ago. Why did 3D platformers die out in general? Rare. They stopped making them, the genre basically died a quick death.
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Naturally I'm aware that those 2 aren't out yet (I didn't realise I was saying they were). Of the ones I've played I thought they were all pretty good, none of them particularly mediocre, although a few could've been better in some ways.

I don't really consider Mario 3D Land a 3d platformer in the typical sense(even though I don't deny that technically, it is). It doesn't have that open world quality, and for most of the game, it functions more like a sidescroller.

I have no particular preference between 2D vs 3D, I enjoy both, and I'd just like to see a balance of both. For a time, perhaps around the turn of the millennium, there was an abundance of 3d Platformers, and it wasn't just Rare that was making them. They were everywhere. During that period it probably seemed like 2d platformers were dated and due to die out. But with a high-profile games like NSMB and Donkey Kong Country Returns, they seem to have made a resurgence in recent years.

2D Platformers never died out on handhelds, partly due to technical limitations I'd assume. But now that we have a handheld that's more than capable of rendering beautiful 3d worlds(at least as well as anything during the 3d platforming heyday), I'd like to see an opening up of what's available. More variety basically.
 
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But you have to admit, most of the well known ones were by Rare.

And for the others, they've died out for various others. For Spyro and Crash, the companies who made them gave up on the series, for Croc I think the company went bankrupt, for Rayman he's only just returned in 2D, could be a while for a 3D game and others like Klonoa or whatever failed miserably in shops and didn't sell.
 
I don't deny that Rare had a lot of success with them.

I still think it's a bit of a mystery why more companies haven't emerged to fill the void. I'd imagine there's a lot of money to be made considering the relative lack of competition. If some of them failed in the past, it was probably due to the overcrowded abundance of similar games. Some of them also weren't that good, and had various control and gameplay issues that may have been bad for the genre as a whole.
 
Probably because the size of the 3D platformer market isn't that big compared to that for other genres. RPGs, 2D platformers and FPS games can all easily sell 20 million + copies a game. The best selling 3D platformer? Mario 64, with about 10-12 million copies sold. And that's best case, most 3D platformers sell between 3 and 7 million copies worldwide. Not exactly Call of Duty/New Super Mario Bros/Wii Sports/Final Fantasy/Pokemon levels I'm afraid.

They're also hard to make compared to 2D ones. Basically, any idiot who can program worth a damn can make a 2D platformer/Mario style engine of some form, but for a 3D one you've then got to add any kinds of annoying things like a decent camera and 3D controls. This is where most companies of the past failed miserably (try using the D Pad for 3D platforming, it's a nightmare) More to the point if you get it wrong, the game becomes complete junk.

Finally, it's work. 2D platformers are easy graphics wise, you only need to show what you can be seen from a side view. For a 3D one, you have to work on making the world look good from millions of camera angles (unless it's fixed like Mario 3D Land/Crash Bandicoot/Luigi's Mansion) and model every possible surface of every possible object.
 
Well those are probably factors. Just the same, stacks of FPS games come out every year. Only a few make the big money. Some are expensive flops. A good business plan just means that a game generates more income than what it cost to create and release. It can sell under a million copies and still be a big success. So long as expectations are realistic, it should be possible to produce a game that stands a decent chance of turning a profit.

If it's so much easier to make 2d platformers, it should be that much harder to stand out from all the competition and everything that's already been done. Every advantage brings it's own built in disadvantage. Really there should still be room for a middle ground.

Frankly I think there's huge opportunity waiting there for any developer that wants to take a stab at it. I imagine it's probably just a matter of time.
 
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