College is a scam

Demon_Skeith

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
87,238
2007
4,418
Awards
30
Credits
20,812
Full year of Nintendo Online
Steal Penalty
You're Rich Money Bags Award
Profile Music
Class of 2013,

No one else is going to tell you this, so I might as well.

You sit here today, $30,000 or $40,000 in debt, as the latest victims of what may well be the biggest conspiracy in U.S. history. It is a conspiracy so big and powerful that Dan Brown won’t even touch it. It’s a conspiracy so insidious that you will rarely hear its name.

Move over, Illuminati. Stand down, Wall Street. Area 51? Pah. It’s nothing.

The biggest conspiracy of all? The College-Industrial Complex.

Consider this: You have just paid about three times as much for your degree as did someone graduating 30 years ago. That’s in constant dollars - in other words, after accounting for inflation. There is no evidence that you have received a degree three times as good. Some would wonder if you have received a degree even one times as good.

According to the College Board, in 1983 a typical private American university managed to provide a bachelor’s degree education to young people just like you for $11,000 a year in tuition and fees. That’s in 2012 dollars.

Instead, those of you at private colleges paid this year an average of $29,000.
And back then a public college charged just $2,200 a year in tuition and fees - in today’s dollars. You could get a full four-year degree for $8,800. Today that will get you one year’s tuition, or $8,700.

Notice, please, we are not even counting the cost of all the “extras,” like room and board. This is just the cost of the teaching.

It is, as a result, no surprise that total student loans are now approaching $1 trillion. They have easily overtaken credit card debts and car loans. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, total student loans have basically tripled since 2004. Fed researcher Lee Donghoon says in the last eight years the number of borrowers has gone up by about 70%, and the average amount owed has also gone up about 70%.

Donghoon calculates that about 17% of those with student loans are more than 90 days’ delinquent on their interest payments. Yet he also calculates that 44% haven’t even entered the repayment period at all.

If you turn to the pages of any newspaper you will read a lot of handwringing about this. You will hear attacks on “predatory” student loan companies, and “predatory... for-profit colleges.” You will hear about cutbacks on Pell Grants and federal aid and proposals to lower the interest rate on subsidized federal loans. But all of these comments ignore one basic problem.
It’s the cost, stupid.

U.S. colleges are a rip-off. Two decades ago I spent six years at Cambridge and Oxford universities and it didn’t cost me a nickel. Admittedly one reason was social policy: The taxpayers paid the bill (and a very good return they earned too, given the British taxes I paid once I graduated and started work). But the second reason was that these universities did not charge an arm, leg and other appendage for the act of teaching.

My undergraduate course at Cambridge largely consisted of one hour a week with a tutor, a weekly essay question and research list, and a library card. This teaching model hadn’t changed much, really, since the days of Aristotle. Student, teacher, discussion. See you same time next week.

How on earth do colleges today ramp up costs to $40,000 a year?

Yes, I know that in the sciences the costs of teaching may have risen to some extent legitimately. But that’s probably wildly exaggerated, especially at the undergraduate level. And in the humanities and liberal arts any claim that the real cost should be rising faster than inflation is complete nonsense.

I know of a young singer who had to drop out of conservatory because he couldn’t afford the tuition. Think about that. How much should singing lessons cost? We’re talking about a sound-proof room and a voice coach. The student brings the vocal cords. How is this worth tens of thousands a year?

Part of the answer lies in the arms race of fancy facilities being built by colleges. Part of the answer lies in escalating salaries, especially for academic “divas” - the marquee names recruited at great expense to bring in the customers... er, students. Part of the answer lies in institutional metastasis - the expansion of bureaucracy, like any bureaucracy.

The student drama facilities at Cambridge consisted of a few rooms here and there and a damp basement below an old church. Out of this the university produced the comedy trouple Monty Python, and a legion of successors. Hollywood director and actor Chris Weisz, who was at university when I was there, began his dramatic career in a bizarre play called Mango Tea in a room above a pub. But apparently today colleges need the dramatic facilities suitable for staging Les Mis.
more here


Upon dropping a class this semester, at my community college which this is my second year attending. I literately shit myself upon what I had racked up in fees, fees that don't even cover the extra amount I had to spend on books, gas and food related to college which is another 2-3k on that bill.

What are your thoughts on this?
 
I heard bad things about for-profit colleges not run by the government, but by corporations. For-profit colleges since many of them are not really good,  and convince you to take out huge loans from the government while the college does not provide a good education, or just ask you to read books in class, and take tests while the teacher is not teaching or present.

For-profit colleges may be easier to get into because of lower requirements according to commercial which show a person who sits at home doing nothing, but suddenly can get into college, but they cost thousands more than a college or university run by the government.

- An education at a for-profit costs, on average, $500/ credit hour, compared with $75/hour at a public college, whose schools usually face the harshest budget cuts yearly.
http://collegecandy.com/2011/06/27/the-scams-that-are-for-profit-colleges/
 
Hopefully the public will catch on to this and when it does, there will be a monumental shift away from college buildings and into online education. I think everyone knows by this point the real reason college is so expensive:

  • The privilege of using their buildings,
  • Getting the word "Harvard" on your diploma.
 
Mascot Tom said:
Hopefully the public will catch on to this and when it does, there will be a monumental shift away from college buildings and into online education. I think everyone knows by this point the real reason college is so expensive:

  • The privilege of using their buildings,
  • Getting the word "Harvard" on your diploma.
online college isn't exactly better. I've herd of a few classes being more pricy for being online.


only way there can be a shift from colleges if business don't rely on them. I would never have bothered with college if I could get a job working on PCs.
 
I agree and it is a conclusion I came to a few years ago. (For a real eye-opener, you should watch the college episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit..)

Anyway, upon researching online colleges for my husband to attend, I found that he'd be spending 3x the amount vs. a brick and mortar community college and I also found out that a trade/technical school like TCI here in NYC is double what you'd pay for cc..

Also, with a cc, vs. a for-profit online school, with the latter, his loan debt would have to be paid back immediately, even if the school fails to find him a job and the monthly payments would be based on the expectation of salary income post-graduation.

So if they over-estimate your salary expectation post graduation, and let's face it, they do, since it is how they make money, then you could very easily be paying what should be a mortgage each month because the payments are so high.

This is also the case even if you are flipping burgers at McD's post graduation, and are making nowhere near half of that expected salary each month. And if that is the job they got for you, or similar, in the sense that you are at the bottom of the corporate totem pole, then they can say thar they have fulfilled their 'job placement' obligation to you.

With tuition also on the rise, you would be screwed and worse off, if you live in a state in which the politicians have consistently voted to keep the minimum wage down and succeeded.

Which is pretty shitty considering the fact that depending on the field you choose, many companies would prefer someone who has experience as well as the degree when looking to hire someone and although internships are great for this, they aren't fair since many of them are unpaid and/or wouldn't count unless you graduated top of your class with latin in your title.

So it would be hard to maintain a job while being in school full time as well as the internship. So even with a degree, it is still a distinct possibility that you wont find a job in your study field post-graduation due to a lack of experience.. unless you graduated with Latin in your title.

With the former, if he got a federal loan, he'd have as many as 5 years to begin paying it back.

Also, with my tip about buying college books FAR cheaper online at sites like abebooks, amazon, barnes and noble and half.com by getting the isbns of every book on your list this semester, (like I did) he'd save a lot more money as well.

So no money thrown away on books whose value decreases faster than that of a new car. If you spend $600 on books, and you took very good care of them until the day you finished classes, with no damage, you will not get back anywhere near the $600 you spent on it.

If you get back $200 in total, you are lucky, so you are even better off buying them online for cheap and keeping them, or you can resell them for cheap and get back closer to what you paid, than you would if you bought and sold from school.

Conclusion: stay local, go to cc and buy your books online w/ expedited shipping, (you'll still spend less vs. buying from school..) and you'll have a better chance at success, and better networking opportunities.

Networking is important because you'll never know how knowing the right people now, will benefit you in the future. The guy you gave a copy of your notes to when he was out sick for a week, might remember your kindness and could return the favor someday.

Most importantly, LEARN TO COOK, instead of eating out (which is bad) and opt for a smaller meal plan, which, are also a waste of money. You'd be surprised how many meals are left over after classes are finished and/or graduation, that are, in essence, wasted.

By cooking for yourself, you'd spend less on each meal.. you can easily compare the price of the item from school, vs. the price of the items you'd need to make it yourself. (Also, women love men who can cook, so this is a skill worth learning.)

You would also have more than enough food left over to last you the week as well, whether it's for more burgers, or other dishes, so you'd also be able to supplement your own cooking with the food from school, or feed yourself and skip the meals entirely to save money and pay less for food.

My husband would benefit greatly from this since he is already established and working in the field he wants to be in.

The degree would just give him a huge bump in salary since that piece of paper means that he is 'serious' about his job, even though 2+ years of hard work, a reputation for being reliable and having a strong work ethic and fast promotions as a result didn't say that already.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
 
BA, I would love to buy my books online. But you know what? My school's teachers don't tell me what books I need and have to show college's book store the class list for them to grab the right books (which for some classes they messed up on.)

And to add to the scam, when I tried to sell them back, which was three 80+ books which were like brand new, I only got back 15$ for a total of 200 something books.
 
That is fucked up. My school had the list of books posted on the wall by class code for the semester in session. All I had to do when i went to get my schedule, was copy the isbn and title and author and go home. As soon as I got home, I did my shopping online.

It sounds like your school is very disorganized. I hope that your degree from there will be recognized, and/or you'll be able to use it once you graduate.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
 
Black Angel said:
That is fucked up. My school had the list of books posted on the wall by class code for the semester in session. All I had to do when i went to get my schedule, was copy the isbn and title and author and go home. As soon as I got home, I did my shopping online.

It sounds like your school is very disorganized. I hope that your degree from there will be recognized, and/or you'll be able to use it once you graduate.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
it's actually been recognized as one of the ten top colleges in the nation:

https://www.nicc.edu/aboutnicc/collegeprofile/excellenceatnicc/
 
Then they are tragically disorganized.

What you should do about your books is go to your book store and ask if they have the books you need and if you can see them.

Write down the ISBN number of each book, or better yet, scan it using the Google Shopper or Redlaser App on your phone or take a picture of the book and then tell them that you don't have enough cash to buy them and that you'd be back later on in the week to purchase them.

Then go home and start your search online.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
 
yeah I'm going to have to do something because my finical aid didn't cover my books last semester and you can only imagine what someone's reaction is opening up a letter expecting a check for the unused aid only to find out there asking more from you.
 
It's not for everyone, but I realized many people don't know about these types of colleges.

Places like Charter Oak State College let you "test out" for credit. Instead of paying college costs and fees, you are responsible for taking a series of different CLEP and similar exams for college credit.

These colleges accept them as college credit and turn it into a degree. 

The cost of the whole ordeal comes out to about $6000 total, and (at least, for me) was a great deal and a great idea.

Just make sure the college is accredited as always. 

I have had no trouble using my degree since graduating from there, and I work at a very prestigious company with hardcode background checks and reference reviews. 
 
I feel really sorry for Americans and everybody else living in a country where you have to pay for going to college, I can't even imagine that. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a scam, but I think there is something seriously wrong with this system.
If I had to pay for college, I think I wouldn't choose my current major (linguistics), I'd feel bad about studying something that...abstract and not very practical. I'd probably go to school to become a nurse or something and I wouldn't enjoy it at all.
 
College without a doubt is a scam. You always hear the same thing. You need to get a degree to get a good job. Bull. You can get a good job without a degree. You just need to have the right credentials. I have seen people with two degrees and they cannot get a job that is worthy of all their hard work. Add the fact they are also stuck in loan debt! I am not saying that college is all bad. A lot of people go there and come out very successful. But the IDEA that you HAVE to go to college to have a productive career is bogus and its an idea i will never accept. 
 
In a world where a High School drop out has access to many U.S. secrets like this Snowden guy everyone has been talking about, who's currently on the run in Hong Kong China. I think college has become a bit obsolete in terms. And these days, is just a building block of social status depending on who you hang out with or are planning to marry. Most people these days are getting their High School diploma, and from there planning their dream gig. Whether it be making money online, advertising, acting, singing, whatever. The job market is scarce for college grads. And these days, it's all about who you know not what you know. And not many people have a mommy or daddy who can get them a job at the firm. My advice would be for people to take out a loan, start up an internet business, and hopefully you can pay that loan back and then some. College should be attended by people with specific goals like accounting, lawyer, doctor, etc. Big fields or occupations. Bachelor degrees aren't worth it these days for all the debt and such. And the shrinking job market.
 
Back
Top