Sony Still Not Pursuing Backward Compatibility

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Despite news of backward compatibility on Xbox One, Sony still doesn't plan on implementing similar technology on PlayStation 4.

Earlier this week at E3 in Los Angeles, Microsoft announced that over 100 Xbox 360 games will be able to run on Xbox One, and that Xbox One users will be able to play older titles online with 360 owners. But while the announcement undoubtedly pleased many Microsoft players - especially considering the newly announced Rare Replay collection - Sony isn't re-evaluating its stance on backward compatibility.

"The announcement didn't change," Sony Computer Entertainment head Shuhei Yoshida told Polygon. "I don't think we will change our approach. The PlayStation 4 doesn't have backward compatibility."

"Backward compatibility is hard," he said. "I won't say we'll never do it, but it's not an easy thing to do. If it was easy we would have done that."
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They should really be doing it.
 
The one thing I can say MIcrosoft did top sony on at E3 is the backwards compatibility announcement, if it weren't for that I would say Sony hands down had the better E3 with the reveal of games that fans have for many years been asking for.
 
Why do you think Sony still isn't going for this? Based on feedback from consumers, it's pretty obvious that backwards compatibility is something Sony's customers and PS users want and need in their products. I heard a rumor a few years back that they were going to buy a game streaming network, where the games would be run in the cloud and "streamed" to the device - pretty cool way to let the Playstation play all sorts of games, not just Sony ones! Do you think they'll ever go for it?
 
See, the thing is... Sony would have to do a hybrid hardware/software approach to make backwards compatibility. I mean they cannot simply emulate the PS3 on the PS4. Despite the fact that the PS4 is a powerful machine... the unique architecture of the PS3 makes emulating it an absolute nightmare. 

For simple understanding the PS3 has a 3.2 Ghz main core with 7 mini-cores (that also operate at 3.2 Ghz) that feed the main core. The PS4 on the other hand has simply 8 cores at ~1.6 Ghz.  So both, essentially, have 8 cores.
Which, hopefully, you can already see the main problem.

For those that can't... Emulating a 3.2 Ghz core with a 1.6 Ghz core is not going to end well. Fact is for pure software emulation you need a speed several orders of magnitude better. It takes a 3000 Mhz or higher (3000 Mhz = 3 Ghz) to emulate a PS2... which has a 333 Mhz processor. So you need basically 10 times more power to software emulate it. The PS4 simply cannot do that in this case. 

Therefore, what would have to happen is that each PS4 would have to come with a cell processor installed to make the games work. (And it'd have to have special firmware made so that the system could take advantage of the greater RAM amount/speed and GPU of the PS4 without breaking things.) But that would increase cost significantly. So they'd either have to:
1- charge more for each PS4. And that would run the risk of Microsoft undercutting them in price even more so.
2- take a profit hit on each PS4. They did that to sell PS3s... it's unlikely they'd want to repeat that again with the PS4 (especially after it's been selling so well).

Therefore, having the PS Now to provide backwards compatibility via streaming is somewhat of an option, even if it isn't exactly perfect. 
It would be nice though if they made it so that you could play games via streaming that you already owned for free by inserting the disc. (So you put a copy of a game in and it'd recognise it as a PS3 game then ask you to stream it via PS Now.) But it's unlikely they'd do that simply because of the cost of streaming that much data. 


Now, all that stated, I would pay more for a more expensive PS4 that had backwards compatibility. But whether or not Sony wants to make that an option is unknown. Given how quick the PS4 has been adopted and how well it's selling... I really can't see them being all that interested in offering it though. Especially not when PS Now exists and they're remaking select games from last gen on PS4 (for those that may have missed them). 
 
No way they could do it and still run decent architecture with the ps4, the ps4 and ps3 have completely different I operating systems making this extremely hard for them and something that would really change the architecture of the ps4. I'd rather not have it in that case.
 
VirusZero said:
See, the thing is... Sony would have to do a hybrid hardware/software approach to make backwards compatibility. I mean they cannot simply emulate the PS3 on the PS4. Despite the fact that the PS4 is a powerful machine... the unique architecture of the PS3 makes emulating it an absolute nightmare. 

For simple understanding the PS3 has a 3.2 Ghz main core with 7 mini-cores (that also operate at 3.2 Ghz) that feed the main core. The PS4 on the other hand has simply 8 cores at ~1.6 Ghz.  So both, essentially, have 8 cores.
Which, hopefully, you can already see the main problem.

For those that can't... Emulating a 3.2 Ghz core with a 1.6 Ghz core is not going to end well. Fact is for pure software emulation you need a speed several orders of magnitude better. It takes a 3000 Mhz or higher (3000 Mhz = 3 Ghz) to emulate a PS2... which has a 333 Mhz processor. So you need basically 10 times more power to software emulate it. The PS4 simply cannot do that in this case. 

Therefore, what would have to happen is that each PS4 would have to come with a cell processor installed to make the games work. (And it'd have to have special firmware made so that the system could take advantage of the greater RAM amount/speed and GPU of the PS4 without breaking things.) But that would increase cost significantly. So they'd either have to:
1- charge more for each PS4. And that would run the risk of Microsoft undercutting them in price even more so.
2- take a profit hit on each PS4. They did that to sell PS3s... it's unlikely they'd want to repeat that again with the PS4 (especially after it's been selling so well).

Therefore, having the PS Now to provide backwards compatibility via streaming is somewhat of an option, even if it isn't exactly perfect. 
It would be nice though if they made it so that you could play games via streaming that you already owned for free by inserting the disc. (So you put a copy of a game in and it'd recognise it as a PS3 game then ask you to stream it via PS Now.) But it's unlikely they'd do that simply because of the cost of streaming that much data. 


Now, all that stated, I would pay more for a more expensive PS4 that had backwards compatibility. But whether or not Sony wants to make that an option is unknown. Given how quick the PS4 has been adopted and how well it's selling... I really can't see them being all that interested in offering it though. Especially not when PS Now exists and they're remaking select games from last gen on PS4 (for those that may have missed them). 
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a very nice explanation, though couldn't they sell like some kind of addon that would connect via USB? 
 
I think this is a bad move on Sony's part.  The fans have clamored for backward compatibility for years.  I'm still frustrated that my collection of PS2 games are sitting collecting dust because I can't play them on my PS3, and my PS2 broke a few years back.  I would pay more for a new PS4, and be more apt to buy one sooner, if I could play my PS2 and PS3 games without having to spend the money all over again.

I agree with VirusZero.  Let's implement some sort of system where I can put in the disc and play it online for free.  They were able to have primitive disc reading technology with the Monster Rancher game back on the PS1.  I don't know any of the specs on how that would work, but it sounds like it would be infinitely cheaper, and it would keep fans from defecting.
 
It seems that around this same time each year, the desire for backwards compatibility in Sony's consoles spikes. With good reason, too! Nintendo's been doing it for years... and now that Microsoft's announced it, too, gee, they should really get on the train! 

This is honestly one of the reasons I haven't really bought Sony. I still own an original PlayStation 2, and when the P3 came out and I found out it wasn't backwards compatible, well, I really didn't want to put the money into it. I recently caved and purchased a Vita, but I have mild regrets, mild regrets. 
 
One of the biggest stories to come out of E3 that doesn’t involve the announcement of an actual game is the news that Microsoft’s Xbox One will now be able to play Xbox 360 game discs, offering full backwards compatibility for the console, something long thought impossible for this new console generation.
 
Martin,
Actually the PS4 runs off the basically same OS as the PS3... Just a graphical overhaul. (They both use FreeBSD as a base then have all their extras on top. Though the PS3's OS is an earlier version of FreeBSD... Which is why certain features that were present on PS3 aren't present on PS4. They just haven't updated/reworked the code to add them back in. Instead they've been more focused on new/other features like the party chat and suspend/resume. Though now they should work towards getting all the PS3 functionality into the PS4...)

Though I don't think it'd be all that difficult for them to include a Cell Processor and their PS3 GPU in the PS4 (though they might have to make the system just a bit bigger to accommodate the 2 chips). Then have an option in the PS4's OS to either auto-boot to the PS3 firmware on detection of a PS3 game in the drive and run that way. Or even a manual boot to PS3 mode (like Nintendo did with the U). Or better still... an option to let users pick whether they want to auto-boot or manually go into it.

DS,
they could possibly make an attachment that hooked in via USB... But it'd have to be basically a full PS3 since trying to pipe data across the USB to the GPU/back then sending the output back for display would cause slowdowns. (USB 3 is pretty quick at 650MB/s... but the connection on the motherboard is just so much quicker. And where the speed needed for the PS3's GPU is at least 15GB/s... USB is just not fast enough.)
So it's really not worth it for them, especially not where they still sell PS3s.


Zikkled, this is actually the first generation for Sony that didn't have backwards compatibility. (Aside from the PS1... which had nothing before it to be backwards compatible with.)
There were PS3s that were backwards compatible. (The first 2 generationswere. The original 20GB/60GB were fully hardware based, having the PS2's cpu/gpu inside. The second generation 60GB/80GB PS3's were partially software based with one of the chips still present. Models CECHA, CECHB, CECHC and CECHE respectively.)
Though they later dropped backwards compatibility to reduce manufacturing costs of the system (since at the time they were taking a loss on each PS3 sold...) as well because the number/quality of PS3 games had increased so backwards compatibility was no longer as big a deal for them. 
(Then of course they started doing ports/remasters/collections of PS2 classics...)
 
I don't understand why they don't want to pursue backwards compatibility.  It's been long asked for, right?  I mean, it would be the coolest thing to be able to play all of your games on a single console, rather than having two or three playstations, just to be able to play whatever game you want.  I know I'd absolutely love to have a playstation 4 that can play games all the way back to the playstation 1 era.  It'd probably be the main selling point for me in terms of getting a playstation 4.  Until then, I think I might stick to PC.
 
I am fine with the ps4 not having backwards compatibility, there are better things they can be focusing on. Could they have did it at the release of the ps4? Very likely. I think they are full of crap to claim that it's hard to emulate their own games on newer systems and they dont' want to put in the work to do it but in a sense you shouldn't be stuck on old games anyway.. as fun as they were.
 
This WOULD have been a big deal IF they had done this the day the XB1 launched. But now, please.

And to make matters worse, only "select" games will be playable. So you're not even guranteed to be able to play the games you want to play. This won't be a selling point for the XB1 I can tell you that much.
 
 
Yeah it sucks that Sony won't pursue it. But why should they? Just because Microsoft did? Going their OWN way is EXACTLY why they have gotten so far ahead with the PS4 in the first place. Why should they play follower when they're already the leader? And come on man, only "select" games will be playable and developers have the option to not be part of this?

I think too many people just saw the announcement and didn't bother to see the reality of this.
 
 
If this was full backward compatibility like the first generation PS3 was then I would say they have something.

But when you come out and say "WE HAVE BACKWARD CAPABILITIES", then go and say "only for some games and developers have to make it so" two years into the system cycle, all I can do is scratch my head.


It feels like this was just a way of getting good PR. You're going to see a lot of whining in the years to come about 360 games not working on XB1 due to either some tech reason or developers feeling they don't want to be bothered.

 
 
I have an XB1 and even I'm saying "so what" to this. The ONLY way this has some credence is if they are telling people they are going to discontinue the 360. And even then, if they can't go FULL backward (meaning with your ENTIRE library) then big deal.

What both Sony and MS need to do at the start of the next gen is consider FULL backward from day 1.

This thing Microsoft did does nothing but make people cheer before the reality strikes home that some of their 360 games still won't work.

Sony only LOOKS like the "bad guy" for not following suit. But it's a good call, especially if you can't do it FULLY.
 
 
It's not that Sony said it was hard to emulate their own stuff... (if memory serves, they never stated that.) It's that if you look at the numbers, that fact is very obviously clear. For pure software emulation you cannot emulate a program designed to run on a chip clocked at 3.2 Ghz with a chip clocked at 1.6 Ghz.  (The actual power of the PS4 doesn't derive from it's CPU, if anything it's CPU is actually kind of weak. It's real power comes from it's much more powerful GPU and large amount of high speed RAM.)
If they did try this, the games would be slow and buggy. And then people would whine that they don't work. 

Which goes back to needing a hybrid approach, which yes they could have done. But it would have increased their cost. And they really wanted to stick with a $400 price point to give them a leg up over Microsoft when they tried selling the XB1 for $500. 
 
VirusZero said:
It's not that Sony said it was hard to emulate their own stuff... (if memory serves, they never stated that.) It's that if you look at the numbers, that fact is very obviously clear. For pure software emulation you cannot emulate a program designed to run on a chip clocked at 3.2 Ghz with a chip clocked at 1.6 Ghz.  (The actual power of the PS4 doesn't derive from it's CPU, if anything it's CPU is actually kind of weak. It's real power comes from it's much more powerful GPU and large amount of high speed RAM.)
If they did try this, the games would be slow and buggy. And then people would whine that they don't work. 

Which goes back to needing a hybrid approach, which yes they could have done. But it would have increased their cost. And they really wanted to stick with a $400 price point to give them a leg up over Microsoft when they tried selling the XB1 for $500. 
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this is the digital age though of online buying and selling. They could just make a custom PS4 that is BC, sell it online and still might be able to sell it at a decent price without retail cost.
 
With this, Microsoft has NO excuses in terms of remasters now then correct? Last I remember, remasters were made because companies wanted it in place of backward capability.

So why are they giving us Gears collection this year? Not to mention some games in that rare collection are on the 360 already.

Besides, does it REALLY matter?

When the PS2 came out, how many of you constantly went back and played PS1 games after the PS2 was on the market for two years? How many of you played PS2 games after the PS3 was on the market for x amount of years?


 
 
I thought the PS4 was already backward compatible? Learn something new, eh...

With microsoft announcing backward compatibility for the XOne, it's gonna give thme a little bit of an edge over Sony. Not much but a little.

It's almost like the scales have shifted some.
 
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